If Jesus Wasn't God

If Jesus wasn’t divine, why should we particularly care what he said? Why pay any more attention to him than to any other ethical thinker?

I'm not a theologian or a philosopher. I'm a pew-sitter, a technology lawyer with a science background. I don't claim any special expertise in matters spiritual.

I do claim to know something about how to analyze evidence and figure out what kind of a story it tells. The following analysis will no doubt strike theologians as sophomoric and unsophisticated. But it seems to fit the evidence:

Jesus urged us to love God, love our neighbors as ourselves, and repent. In today's scientific era, we can get a better appreciation of this missive, from a purely rationalist perspective.

The evidence suggests that

• Our universe had an origin, currently thought to have been some 13.7 billion years ago. Its physical laws seem to be remarkably fine-tuned. We can infer that a Creator had a hand in it somehow, in some way that we don't nearly understand;

• Over time, the universe seems to be consistently increasing in organization and "goodness." Of course there have been setbacks, sometimes grave ones. But if you plot the data points, so to speak, the overall curve is definitely upward. See generally science writer Robert Wright’s Non-Zero: The Logic of Human Destiny;

• Notwithstanding the Second Law of Thermodynamics, the universe has not degenerated into complete chaos and entropy. It's not unreasonable to infer that perhaps the Creator is continuing to supervise the project;

• In this increase in goodness, two of the fundamental forces at work are cooperation and reciprocal altruism -- love, if you will. Without those things, it's hard to imagine how any society (human or animal) could have progressed at all (see Wright again);

• These things suggest that, when we love our neighbors as ourselves (and conduct ourselves accordingly), we appear to be contributing just a bit to a "construction project" of unimaginable scope;

• We can barely glimpse the purpose of the project. But the universe's consistent overall increase in goodness suggests that the purpose must be something truly wonderful;

• There are a lot of stories about people seeing, hearing, and even touching deceased loved ones. Both my mother and my grandmother had such experiences while wide awake. I don't yet know much about this area, often referred to as after-death communication. But such stories certainly give us empirical reasons to suspect there may be some kind of life after death;

• For reasons I haven't fully worked out in my mind, it's not unreasonable to infer that the Creator might be at least somewhat analogous to a loving parent;
  

So the Jesus of the Gospels is telling us, in effect: Here's your chance to join the hottest project in the universe, working for the Creator himself, whom we call God the Father. (Cf. the parable of the workers in the vineyard, Matt. 20:1-16.) Whatever else the man from Galilee may have proclaimed about his mission, the end-times, and the like, it's pretty clear that he taught at least this much.

The specific job Jesus tells us to do can be easy at times, and at other times it can be incredibly hard:

• Put God and his mission first in your life;

• Work on discerning God's desires for that mission as best you can. You're not likely ever to get it completely right. But keep working at it anyway.

• In trying to discern God's desires, make use of all the resources at your command. Remember that those resources include, not just your own observations and reason and experience, but also those of the community present and past.

  It's important to use all these resources, because history gives us ample evidence that:
  

  • None of us has all the answers;
    
  • Much of what we think we know, may well prove to be incomplete or flat-out wrong;
    
  • Insight seems to have been parceled out among us, sort of like distributed processing in computer science;
    

• Love your neighbor as yourself – which means anyone who crosses your path, not just your fellow tribesman;

• Be humbly attentive to whether your life might be getting out of alignment with your best estimate of God’s will. If if seems to be, then make a "course correction" to change your mind and heart and life. That is to say: Repent;

• Repeat as necessary, trusting in God that things will eventually work out unimaginably well. Jesus provided a shining example, trusting in God even unto death.
  

As I say, the foregoing will probably strike theologians as sophomoric. To some it may sound new-agey. But it's straight out of the Gospels. To me it's an awesome message, more so than anything else I can imagine. It's something to which I can readily commit my life. It's why I call myself a follower of Jesus -- a Christian.

Comments

It isn't just what Christ said that's important, though; it was His whole life. What He said, what He did, what happened to Him, how He inspired His followers after His death - all of it.

I think that applies whether you believe He was divine or not.

[D. C.]

Agreed - that all gets stirred into the pot. In the main posting, I was simply summarizing.

[John wilkins]

Jesus represents God. His faith describes the faith we aspire to. Jesus does not constitute God.

God, however constituted Jesus. He did not only constitute Jesus. He is constituted many different places. And God, of course, does not only represent "Jesus."

When we say that Jesus "represents" God we say that Jesus represents God's universal grace that redeems the world through love. "Jesus" in fact, for the Johannine community, was actually a code word for Love, a word that would have been recognized by those truly initiated into the community.

[Pontificator]

Contrary to Mr. Wilkins, the entire point of the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity is that Jesus does in fact constitute God. He doesn't just represent or symbolize or reveal God; he is God.

[John wilkins]

Well, more accurately, God is not only constituted by Jesus.

[Vladimir]

Dear Friends!
Let me attract your attention a small material.
Excuse me please my mistakes in English, I am sorry, I don't speak
English.

God bless you,
Vladimir Rumyantsev
E-mail: bigroad@olvex.ru

The Son of God - King

Many assert, that Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God, but that He is
not the God, completely ignoring that fact, that under law of Moses the
Son of God means only one – “equal to the God” and “the God, as well as
His Father”. Verses of the Holy Scripture where Jews condemn Jesus
Christ that He names himself Son of God testify to it:
“Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not
only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making
Himself equal with God” (John. 5:18);
“The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You,
but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God”
(John. 10:33).
Therefore any person who declares itself, that he is the Son of God,
under law Moses makes itself equal to the God, makes itself by the God,
naming the Father of the God, that under law Moses is classified as
blasphemy, and adequately death what of Jews and have declared Pontius
Pilate, condemning Jesus Christ on death:
“The Jews answered him, “We have a law, and according to our law He
ought to die, because He made Himself the Son of God” (John. 19:7).
From what follows, that if Lord Jesus Christ is not the God as well as
His Father Jews have acted fairly, having condemned Jesus Christ on
death. Who today will dare to make the similar application?
Law of Moses speaks that Lord Jesus Christ is the true Son God, equal
to the God and the God, as well as His Father.
Words “sons of God” in relation to the man in the Holy Scripture
specify that it son of God on good fortune, instead of by the nature as
Jesus Christ, and to confuse these two concepts is inadmissible:
“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God”
(Romans 8:14);
“nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the Angels and are
sons of God, being sons of the resurrection” (Luke 20:36).
And only Jesus Christ is Son God by the nature, is equal to the God and
the God, as well as His Father:
“For to which of the Angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, today I
have begotten You?” (Hebrews 1:5).
“I have made the earth, and created man on it” (Isaiah 45:12)
Sons of God are creature of God, but only Jesus Christ is begotten Son,
not created.
God the Father and the Son of God Jesus Christ are the two separate
Persons having the nature of the God, and to mix the Father and the Son
in one Person is inadmissible.
The God is one, but the Persons having the nature of the God, not one.
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one” (Deuteronomy 6:4);
“I will announce the definition: God has told to Me: You are My Son,
today I have begotten You” (Psalm 2:7).
Set of these two verses gives the full basis to name Lord Jesus Christ
“one more Person”, having the nature of the God. To name Jesus Christ
“one more God” in aggregate with told in Deuteronomy 6:4 “the Lord is
one” - means to contradict to definition of God, what Jesus Christ
announced in Psalm 2:7.
From what follows, that the “God is one” is definition of God, which
the Son of God in 7-th verse of 2-nd Psalm has solemnly declared.
“I will announce the definition’ - the words of 7-th verse of 2-nd
Psalm to which today it is not given any value, as if these words in the
Holy Scripture is not present. But these words in the Holy Scripture
are, and they are told by somebody, but Lord Jesus Christ, and they have
the most direct attitude to the nature of the God.
At reading the Holy Scripture at the person the impression is created,
that on behalf of the God in the Old Testament is submitted speaking
only one Person, God the Father, but at close examination it is simple
to define, that it is far from being so.
“God said to Moses, “I am Who I am (Jehovah)”; and He said, “Thus you
shall say to the sons of Israel, I am has sent me to you. » (Exodus
3:14).
Who is submitted speaking in the Exodus 3:14 Father, the Son or Holy
Spirit? Today practically everyone, not reflecting will answer, that it
is the God the Father while except for the Father speaking can be
submitted both the Son and Holy Spirit.
Let's result a verse of the Old Testament in which Father is submitted
speaking only:
“Thus says God the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them
out, who spread out the earth and its offspring, who gives breath to the
people on it and spirit to those who walk in it,” (Isaiah 42:5).
Verses of the Old Testament in which the Son is submitted speaking only:
“Surely My hand founded the earth, and My right hand spread out the
heavens;
when I call to them, they stand together” (Isaiah 48:13);
“You are My witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and My servant whom I have
chosen,
so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me”
(Isaiah 43:10,11);
Verse of the Old Testament in which it is submitted speaking only Holy
Spirit:
“The Lord said to Moses, “How long will this people spurn Me” (Numbers
14:11).
About a verse in which it is submitted speaking Holy Spirit, prophet
Isaiah has mentioned:
“But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit;” (Isaiah 63:10).
The special attention should be turned on verses of the Old Testament
in which the word “King” in relation to the God because in all these
verses King is only the Son of God Lord Jesus Christ about what the God
the Father has told to us in 6-th verse of 2-nd psalm is mentioned:
“Yet I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion” (Psalm 2:6).
Therefore further in all verses in the Old Testament in the Holy
Scripture where the word “King” in relation to the God is mentioned the
Son, not Father and not Holy Spirit is submitted, and to confuse these
concepts besides is inadmissible:
“I am the Lord, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King”
(Isaiah 43:15);
Speaking only about the Father, we speak about the one God, speaking
only about the Son, we speak about the one God, speaking only about the
Holy Spirit, we speak about the one God, speaking about the Father, the
Son, the Holy Spirit, we speak about the one God, but not about one
Person. That is why King is only one Person, the Son, and to name King
of the Father or Holy Spirit, it means to suppose mixture of Persons
that to make it is impossible. The Son of God is the one God, eternal
King:
“In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon the
throne, high and lifted up, and His train filled the temple.
Then said I, Woe is me! For I am undone; because I am a man of unclean
lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for mine
eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts” (Isaiah 6:1,5).
“These things said Isaiah, when he saw His glory, and spoke of Him”
(John 12:41), about Son of God, Lord Jesus Christ, King, Lord of hosts.
“And about the Son: You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of
the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands” (Hebrews.
1:8,10);
“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation,
lowly and riding on a donkey, a colt, the foal of a donkey” (Zechariah
9:9);
“And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall
be. “The Lord is one,” And His name one” (Zechariah 14:9);
“Then the King will say to those on His right hand, "Come, you blessed
of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation
of the world” (Matthew 25:34);
“Pilate also wrote an inscription and put it on the cross. It was
written, “Jesus the Nazarene, the King of the Jews” (John 19:19);
“These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them,
for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him
are called, chosen, and faithful” (Revelation 17:14);
“And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: King of kings
and Lord of lords” (Revelation 19:16).
“Your arrows are sharp in the heart of the King's enemies; the peoples
fall under You” (Psalm 45:5);
“For the Lord Most High is awesome; He is a great King over all the
earth” (Psalm 47:2);
“Sing praises to God, sing praises! Sing praises to our King, sing
praises!
For God is the King of all the earth; Sing praises with understanding”
(Psalm 47:6,7);
“For the LORD is the great God, and the great King above all gods”
(Psalm 95:3);
“Your eyes will see the King in His beauty; they will see the land that
is very far off» (Isaiah 33:17);
“Lift up your heads, O you gates! And be lifted up, you everlasting
doors!
And the King of glory shall come in.
Who is this King of glory? The Lord strong and mighty, the LORD mighty
in battle.
Lift up your heads, O you gates! Lift up, you everlasting doors! And
the King of glory shall come in.
Who is this King of glory? The Lord of hosts, He is the King of glory”
(Psalm 24:7-10).
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was
manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels,
preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up in
glory” (1 Timothy 3:16).
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in
the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew
28:19).

Vladimir Rumyantsev
E-mail: bigroad@olvex.ru

[Bo Yan]

John Wilkins,
would you let me know how I can find more about the Johannine community?
Thanks!
Bo

[Nasser]

dear all,
you can read this

By - Yusuf Estes

Does the belief in Jesus, peace be upon him, as a ‘son of God’ really make sense?

What exactly does 'son of God' mean?

Can true salvation from God, be the punishment of someone else who is innocent from any of these crimes, to be punished as though he were guilty?

Does God need someone to suffer severe punishment, even though they are trying, day after day.

Did Jesus, peace be upon him, tell the people to take him as a god, or to worship him?

Let us find the answer to these and other important questions about the nature of Jesus of Christianity and Islam.

[Remainder of very, VERY long comment deleted by blog host.]