"Who Made You The Boss Of Us?" -- Liz Zivanov

With the author's permission, here's a with-the-bark-off response from liberal GC deputy the Rev. Liz Zivanov to her traditionalist colleague the Rev. Dr. Kendall Harmon, posted on the House of Bishops and Delegates listserv.  I don't personally subscribe to everything she says, but I sure agree with a lot of it.

==BEGIN QUOTE==

Kendall,

A few days ago, you made a strong statement about the need for clarity and honesty.

In terms of clarity and honesty, here are a couple of statements:

1. We did nothing wrong in consecrating Gene Robinson even though you and others feel that we did. As a result, there is no reason to apologize.

2. To apologize as we did in the resolution that passed today is an example of the dishonesty that you and others insist on. Does it feel good to know you forced it?

3. Listen to our language, rather than insisting on the language that is in the Windsor Report.

We are perfectly capable of putting words together into sentences and saying what we mean without being told to take pre-selected words and jamming them into places that do not express what we need to communicate. You and others are not only telling us what we must believe and how we must feel, but you're also telling us the words we have to use to communicate all of that.

4. Living into the Gospel of Christ is not dependent on how you or the Global South feel.

As much as you might not like it, Episcopalians are not accountable to you or Peter Akinola or even the Archbishop of Canterbury. We are accountable to God. If we're willing to stand before God and speak of how we have lived out our faith, why on earth do you think it's any of your business to make a judgment prior to God's? We spent way too much time today trying to soothe the feelings of you and other poor souls who were offended by the actions of GC03. Own your feelings and just deal with them and let us get on with our ministry.

5. Your pleas for unity are hollow. You are really looking for uniformity of belief.

When Bonnie Perry got up and asked the HoD if A161 meant that gays were to return to lying and deceiving about who they are in order to be in the church,, I watched three priests from the Diocese of Dallas look at each other, chuckle, and nod their heads. So much for unity and honesty.

You don't want honesty, You don't want clarity. You want the church to be the way it was in the 1950s when everyone (read women and gays) knew their place and stayed there. You stand at the mikes and give us ultimatums or tell us what we must feel to get in your good graces or the good graces of the Diocese of Fort Worth or the Province of Nigeria. Are you speaking for yourself or are you interpreting for the rest of the Communion? As kids sometimes say today, "Who made you the boss of us?"

I have written way too much on this list serv, and am having a very satisfying time during legislative sessions listening to those who haven't written but have gone to the mikes. Perhaps you might also slow down, have a seat, and hear what the middle and the other side are saying. Listen to the voices of those who have not been regulars on this list serv. You might even learn something about what we are really feeling about our dedication to living out the Good News. Because we are dedicated to that mission, regardless of what you have decided.

BTW, we all heard Becky Scott of Alaska compassionately and with great humility, offer herself up on the cross in the interest of the Communion. On what cross are you offering yourself or your fellow traditionalists? So far, I'm only hearing one side being told to repent and I'm only hearing of one group being offered up for sacrifice even though there are comments about how we all have to give something up or we all will be losing. Talk about disingenuous.

Do you really care about finding a way out of this into unity where people of good faith can live in diversity? Or will you continue on the path that you have laid out for uniformity? Find me tomorrow and let's go sit down someplace and talk with each other. Hawaii is right behind Dallas. I know that's a dangerous thing to suggest and that you might find yourself in danger of that slippery slope by actually sitting and talking with me or any of the other revisionists. But if you're really serious about unity, the invitation is there.

Liz Zivanov

Hawaii c3 06

Comments

[Wayne]

DC,
This definitely shows how raw the nerves are on the issues faced not just by Anglicans but by other mainlines.

I can sympathize with some of the frustration expressed, but I have to say that the tone of the letter strikes me as sarcastic and ugly. When others outside of the Christian community see it, I have to wonder what they must think or whether it would make them more interested in joining the Christian community or make them want to run the for the exits. (I suspect the latter).

For all the world, it appears that it is has degenerated into a raw power struggle, indistinguishable from a hissy fit breaking out at the local bridge club.
("Ladies and Gentleman, Jesus has left the building. The King has left the building.")

It's not that I think there is anything wrong with feeling strongly about our positions, but I have a hard time seeing that expressions of disagreement in this form are in the spirit of helping "God's kingdom come."

[David Huff]

Yes, Liz truly rocks. :)

And, I'm sad to say, I have no qualms believing the comment about the rude Dallas clergy. That sort of snarky, rude behavior by the "conservatives" is rampant around here, unfortunately.

[Barry Fernelius]

You're not the boss of me now
You're not the boss of me now
You're not the boss of me now, and you're not so big

Life is unfair.

(Lyrics by They Might Be Giants)

[Jerry]

Liz is absolutely right. I can't believe GC buckled like it did. My Senior Warden is so angry he's thinking of resigning his position in protest. Personally it wouldn't surprise me if all the gays and lesbians in the church simply walked. It's disgusting. We did what was right in 2003; if Pter Akinola and others want to break communion with us for it, so be it. It's time we get over it and move on; all GC did was delay the inevitable. Does anyone really think the Episcopal Church is not going to ordain another openly gay bishop?

[bls]

I'm not going anywhere. But you know, I'm afraid this Church is infected with absolutely the worst kind of clericalism.

Who the hell cares who the Bishops are? Does this have anything to do with anything? In all this inanity about purple shirts, does anybody even care what happens to the lay membership anymore? There are 100 Bishops in TEC; there are 2.4 million members.

Can anybody do the math? Does anybody have any perspective on what's important any longer, or are we on this merry-go-round forever?

Bishops, of all things! We don't even have same-sex blessings yet - and nobody's even talking about them, or about the vicious anti-gay laws in Nigeria - and we're consumed with Bishops. God almighty.